Comments on: Accusations Of Lemming Like Activity Becoming Lemming Like http://circ.us/2007/07/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/ Circ.us is a creative communications firm that helps brands tell stories through innovation and participation. Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:21:44 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.2 hourly 1 By: adam http://circ.us/2007/07/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/comment-page-1/#comment-997 adam Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:00:50 +0000 http://amediacirc.us/2007/07/22/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/#comment-997 Rebecca I have to admit, I had a sense that we were of similar minds. I have read your articles and have seen you speak and I got the sense that you were pushing the opposite buttons I was pushing. I do think we were both pushing buttons, what better way to start great dialogue! Anyhow, I fully agree that the “because it is there” mentality and the “free PR” angle are no way to market and are getting quite annoying. Second Life is not a strategy in and of itself. If it is going to be leveraged, it must be done so as part of an overall strategy. In terms of sex being able to infiltrate an initiative, well, we have only seen a few examples of that, and there are ways to block such actions, but this is certainly something to be considered. I am a huge fan of what Doppelganger is doing and have been following this space very closely. I actually wrote an article on the various virtual worlds and the pros and cons of private versus public. I would love to hear your thoughts: http://www.imediaconnection.com/content/14408.asp Anyhow, thanks for keeping the conversation going! Rebecca

I have to admit, I had a sense that we were of similar minds. I have read your articles and have seen you speak and I got the sense that you were pushing the opposite buttons I was pushing. I do think we were both pushing buttons, what better way to start great dialogue!

Anyhow, I fully agree that the “because it is there” mentality and the “free PR” angle are no way to market and are getting quite annoying. Second Life is not a strategy in and of itself. If it is going to be leveraged, it must be done so as part of an overall strategy.

In terms of sex being able to infiltrate an initiative, well, we have only seen a few examples of that, and there are ways to block such actions, but this is certainly something to be considered.

I am a huge fan of what Doppelganger is doing and have been following this space very closely. I actually wrote an article on the various virtual worlds and the pros and cons of private versus public. I would love to hear your thoughts:

http://www.imediaconnection.com/content/14408.asp

Anyhow, thanks for keeping the conversation going!

]]> By: Rebecca Lieb http://circ.us/2007/07/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/comment-page-1/#comment-996 Rebecca Lieb Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:30:25 +0000 http://amediacirc.us/2007/07/22/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/#comment-996 Adam, Appreciate your points -- and in fact, I don't think we're of two minds at all when it comes to marketing in Second Life. I certainly don't feel marketers shouldn't market in SL, I'm just sick and tired of the "because it's there" mentality. The column was prompted, really, by the deluge of "come see us in Second Life" press releases clogging my inbox. I believe ClickZ first covered SL advertising in 2003 or 4. Now, marketers appear to be viewing these launches as more a way to get ink than any other kind of serious leverage. I applaud the work Marc Schiller's ElectricArtists did for Starwood in this respect. But a SL launch in and of itself is no longer news, is it? As to the sex thing -- no, I have no objections to sex (duh!). I know there's sex on the Internet (duh!). And we all know there's sex in SL (another duh). This issue is anything but a cop-out. What you're overlooking is a fundamental element of media: adjacency. The abstraction of sex on the Internet is very different from what can happen in SL on your very own island, or virtual store/doorstep. For some marketers (particularly those peddling adult products), this may be a fantastic opportunity. If I were Disney, I'd be a little bit more cautious. So - two more of my cents on SL. Just got an invite to tour Doppelganger. Looking forward to seeing a new virtal world iteration! Rebecca Adam,

Appreciate your points — and in fact, I don’t think we’re of two minds at all when it comes to marketing in Second Life. I certainly don’t feel marketers shouldn’t market in SL, I’m just sick and tired of the “because it’s there” mentality. The column was prompted, really, by the deluge of “come see us in Second Life” press releases clogging my inbox. I believe ClickZ first covered SL advertising in 2003 or 4. Now, marketers appear to be viewing these launches as more a way to get ink than any other kind of serious leverage. I applaud the work Marc Schiller’s ElectricArtists did for Starwood in this respect. But a SL launch in and of itself is no longer news, is it?

As to the sex thing — no, I have no objections to sex (duh!). I know there’s sex on the Internet (duh!). And we all know there’s sex in SL (another duh). This issue is anything but a cop-out. What you’re overlooking is a fundamental element of media: adjacency. The abstraction of sex on the Internet is very different from what can happen in SL on your very own island, or virtual store/doorstep. For some marketers (particularly those peddling adult products), this may be a fantastic opportunity. If I were Disney, I’d be a little bit more cautious.

So – two more of my cents on SL. Just got an invite to tour Doppelganger. Looking forward to seeing a new virtal world iteration!

Rebecca

]]> By: Second Life Marketing, Part 1138 http://circ.us/2007/07/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/comment-page-1/#comment-995 Second Life Marketing, Part 1138 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:50:44 +0000 http://amediacirc.us/2007/07/22/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/#comment-995 [...] I recently read three cutting critiques of marketing and advertising in Second Life. The first is by Rebecca Lieb (found via Adam): Inhabitants of virtual worlds don’t have real-world needs. To get very far in Second Life, you do need money (in the form of Linden dollars) to buy goods, services, and property. No small quantity of the virtual currency is spent on goods and services related to virtual sex. Way-far-out-there virtual sex, and no small number of sex businesses (one of which recently changed hands for $50,000) often seem like the primary purpose of Second Life. As ClickZ columnist Ian Schafer told the “Los Angeles Times,” “One of the most frequently purchased items in Second Life is genitalia.” [...] [...] I recently read three cutting critiques of marketing and advertising in Second Life. The first is by Rebecca Lieb (found via Adam): Inhabitants of virtual worlds don’t have real-world needs. To get very far in Second Life, you do need money (in the form of Linden dollars) to buy goods, services, and property. No small quantity of the virtual currency is spent on goods and services related to virtual sex. Way-far-out-there virtual sex, and no small number of sex businesses (one of which recently changed hands for $50,000) often seem like the primary purpose of Second Life. As ClickZ columnist Ian Schafer told the “Los Angeles Times,” “One of the most frequently purchased items in Second Life is genitalia.” [...]

]]> By: adam http://circ.us/2007/07/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/comment-page-1/#comment-994 adam Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:52:22 +0000 http://amediacirc.us/2007/07/22/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/#comment-994 Jay Good call! I failed to mentioed the user count on the homepage :) I am still waiting for Rebecca to join the conversation, as I have a lot of respect for much of what she writes. Adam Jay

Good call!

I failed to mentioed the user count on the homepage :)

I am still waiting for Rebecca to join the conversation, as I have a lot of respect for much of what she writes.

Adam

]]> By: Jay Moonah http://circ.us/2007/07/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/comment-page-1/#comment-993 Jay Moonah Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:46:15 +0000 http://amediacirc.us/2007/07/22/accusations-of-lemming-like-activity-becoming-lemming-like-2/#comment-993 From reading that article, I couldn't help thinking that someone at Linden Lab must have run over Rebecca Lieb’s puppy. This paragraph in particular I found a little odd: "These factors doubtless underscore Linden Labs' (the company behind Second Life) reluctance to release its actual user numbers. There are millions of registered Second Life accounts, to be sure. But there's also a reported churn rate of a whopping 85 percent, and, according to a Forrester analyst, only 30,000 to 40,000 online users at peak times." Hmmm, well I guess looking at the front page of the site you're reviewing (panning) is a lot of work for Ms. Lieb. As it happens you need look no further than the front page of secondlife.com to get the total registrants, users in the last 60 days & users currently online. I wish all social media sites were as reluctant to share user stats! Quick, exactly how many people have registered for Facebook as of this moment? Hmmm, can’t seem to find it on their home page… I’m with you Adam, I’m not a Second Life die-hard by any means but I do see the potential in virtual worlds, and right now Second Life is the one with the users and the tools to try things out. That might not always be the case, but I certainly thing forward thinking agencies and advertisers, along with other groups and individuals, would do well to experiment with environments like Second Life. From reading that article, I couldn’t help thinking that someone at Linden Lab must have run over Rebecca Lieb’s puppy. This paragraph in particular I found a little odd:

“These factors doubtless underscore Linden Labs’ (the company behind Second Life) reluctance to release its actual user numbers. There are millions of registered Second Life accounts, to be sure. But there’s also a reported churn rate of a whopping 85 percent, and, according to a Forrester analyst, only 30,000 to 40,000 online users at peak times.”

Hmmm, well I guess looking at the front page of the site you’re reviewing (panning) is a lot of work for Ms. Lieb. As it happens you need look no further than the front page of secondlife.com to get the total registrants, users in the last 60 days & users currently online. I wish all social media sites were as reluctant to share user stats! Quick, exactly how many people have registered for Facebook as of this moment? Hmmm, can’t seem to find it on their home page…

I’m with you Adam, I’m not a Second Life die-hard by any means but I do see the potential in virtual worlds, and right now Second Life is the one with the users and the tools to try things out. That might not always be the case, but I certainly thing forward thinking agencies and advertisers, along with other groups and individuals, would do well to experiment with environments like Second Life.

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